We now have figures and please read the two documents as below in detail which illustrate a massive majority for our Clubs to continue at 14. We intend to make this happen !!!!

One or two in the lower divisions seem to want to stay at 12 and we could look at this once we know exactly where we are going.

The Review Body are offering a Cup Competition with inducements. The Competition will still only guarantee one home game and they are offering inducements for Clubs to join. We know they could be taken away once we have become involved at any time (history tells us this). We are insisting any Cup Competitions should be based on 14.

We have a detailed summary if you’d like s copy please mail Fred Swarbrick fw.swarbrick@homecall.co.uk

NAG Group

THE RFU ADULT REVIEW

NAG Responses and Results of a comprehensive Survey of all Clubs in the North of England

(NAG GROUP) Northern Action Group.

After receiving copies of the Adult Review Document in June, I think it was, it was clear that the outcomes were not acceptable to our Clubs in the North of England. Working on the premise as elucidated in the Review “One suit does not fit all” it seemed clear that the object of the Review Body was indeed to “make” one suit fit all.

“”1.5
We have worked hard to try to reconcile some of those opposing views. What is clear, (it certainly is clear in the North) though, is that for almost any given competition issue there is no perfect

“one size fits all” solution for all rugby in England””

We in the North must thank the author of the Review document for offering “the comment as above” which clearly allows for certain areas to form their own needs to “fit” in with their own strategic needs.

We in the North can tell you clearly that the strategic problems faced in the North are in no way the same as faced in other parts of the country.

It was with these facts in mind that the NAG Group was formed to elucidate in detail the feelings of ALL our Clubs in the North of England, both from a Club viability point of view and players opinions, equally as important, if not more important.

I will provide facts from all aspects at the foot of this exposition.

Constitution of NAG

After receiving copies of the Adult Review it was with some concern that there was a proposal which in time turned into an imposition, that the game in every area of our Sport should return to a 12 team format in the lower reaches of our game. It appeared, without evidence, to a small Group, certainly in the Lancashire area (note two members on the body from Lancashire, note both their Clubs do not support the review) that there was no appetite for this move. After a number of calls to each County the NAG Group was set up, two members from Clubs in each of our Constituent bodies. 15 gentlemen were involved.

Review Conclusions and perceived reasons for the Review.

It is clear that numbers of players are leaving our sport, clearly identified by the numbers of sides per Club decreasing but in fact a recent document supplied by Sport England (correct me if I’m wrong with the publication) suggested in fact the trend had been halted and numbers were on the increase. So, one reason, for the reviews recommendations to be re-visited.

The reasons given for the loss of numbers don’t tie up, see the statistics below at the levels being spoken about, there is, an appetite to play Rugby on a regular basis and, Saturday to Saturday.

The Review suggests that players are leaving the game earlier. Speak to the MadRef Society. They are short of numbers due to the fact that the North West Leagues are encouraging players to extend their careers with the consequent reduction in the numbers taking up officiating. Of course before these Leagues (14 team) were produced the Referees Society, due to the number of “cry offs” were able to move their Gentlemen around to cover games. With the reliability now of fixtures this option doesn’t exist.

Young players are being lost to the game and maybe, the Review should have addressed this, which applies to the North West and maybe other parts of the Country. Young talented players are being attracted to Sale Sharks (North West) and when it appears they might just not be meeting the standards they are discarded. Do they continue in the game? No they stop playing. A system must be set up to develop players through the Clubs to prevent this waste.

Television can have a major impact on lads leaving the game or not even taking it up. Regular games are now screened on what are essentially minor Channels even moreso now when Premiership games are now on BT. Rugby League are utilising television to publicise their sport to the detriment of our great game, by now, televising games, Thursdays, Fridays and Saturdays. You can hardly see a Premiership Rugby Union game.

All these are reasons for the loss of players only addressed by the Review Body by suggesting, reducing the number of fixtures will correct things. It is a fact that this process will reduce the viability of a number of our Clubs, threatening them with closure, thereby reducing the numbers of players in our game.

Please not in the list of comments the paragraphs from the West Park St. Helens Club. Note that one of the arch proponents of the Review is a long time (no life) member of that Club.

Clearly a completely wrong approach !!!!!

History

It seems only yesterday, but in fact it is some 5 years ago amazingly, that our game was operating on a 12 team League basis. Clubs were faced with a fixture list that afforded 22 games per season 11 at home and 11 away. They were faced in many cases with surviving on 3 home games from January to April. (Just, as is likely to happen with these ill thought out conclusions). Again an action Group was set up in attempt to move the North to a 14 team League format.THE RFU ADULT REVIEW

Each member was tasked with consulting with a number of Clubs, again throughout the North of England, to obtain their views. After the Northern Divisions had produced figures showing there was only a figure of 45% in favour of a move to 14, obtained by “snail mail” and only a low “turn out” response, to coin a modern phrase, it was felt this figure was simply not true.
The Group, based in Lancashire, proceeded to contact every Club in the North of England. They did although it’s got to be said not in the detail that the current exercise has undergone.

The result came back as an 80+% needing a move to 14 team Leagues. A not too dissimilar figure to the need as of today. An edict had been received from Twickenham (Terry Burwell ) at that time, that any changes would have to be made on a country wide basis.

Out came the RFU Handbooks and contact was made on a League by League basis to elucidate views from all parts of our great game. On a League by League basis, contact was made and it soon became clear that the need for a move to 14 was needed countrywide. Maybe not as stridently as in the North but nevertheless a considerable number in favour of a change.

One memory not unlike today – a Gentleman from the South West who I spoke to – a member of the RFU council was forcefully, wanting to maintain the status quo and voting at Council to maintain 12 against the majority views of the Clubs in the South West. I’m sure you’ll recognise this stance with some members of your Review Group in the present instance.

Surprisingly an edict soon after the exercise came out (Terry Burwell) stating that particular areas could run with their own preferred sizes. I wish I still had that notice from Twickenham I am certain this edict has not been rescinded. History says that the game turned to 14 throughout where feasible, with all the advantages this entailed.

To this day, soon to be changed if this Review is allowed to go through, Clubs have enjoyed reliable fixtures, in viable numbers, providing income streams, to allow the financial structures of our Clubs to flourish, in respect of spectator numbers, sponsorship opportunities as games are guaranteed, and of course all the advantages that adequate numbers of home games provide.

The Pros of the Adult Review

I’ve got to say I can’t think of any favourable points in favour of the proposed move back to 12 team Leagues, certainly any that might enhance the game and produce regular week on week Rugby that all our Clubs, spectators and importantly our players desire. Sorry and please accept my apologies, I just can’t see any positive outcomes by reducing our fixtures from the present 26 in a 14 situation to 22 which will be the case in a 12 team structure. Gentlemen you identify our season as a 35 Saturday season and then produce a system that will give each Club 13 Saturdays without Rugby. Of course you provide a possible Cup Competition but the bare facts are 13 Saturdays without Rugby (3 months of the season). Junior Sunday football sides play more games than this number!!!

The Cons of the Adult Review

There is a lack of appetite for Cup Competitions and whilst the Review is suggesting a structured Competition, the offer of a guarantee of two home games has proved to be unachievable as the Structured season has been published.

Cup Competitions can be interesting but there is no guarantee of Home games and therefore a limited time for our Clubs to put Sponsors in place. “providing a vital source of income” As sides progress, the sides eliminated in the early rounds inevitably will be left with blank dates.

The lack of game numbers would allow our players to drift – shopping, other sports!!, a general malaise but it also affects our spectator numbers, a lack of number’s of games allows them to move to other sports, football inevitably, dare I say it Rugby League ( of course one of the members of the Review Panel is an ex-Chairman of The Rugby League), and television possibly. Rugby League competitive Rugby is unique to the North of England and does not seem to have been acknowledged by the Review Body. A reduction in competitive games will be “manna” to the Rugby League management – note the member on the Review Panel. All need a regular diet of games and competition.

Of course all these were reasons some 5 years ago to turn our Leagues to a 14 format.

The suggestion that players are tired and need a break is beyond comprehension, in the present 14 team Leagues the average games players are playing is 18 approx. with players taking time out, injury, holidays, wedding nights etc. etc. I honestly cannot accept this premise. Player “burn out” has not increased over the years. Moving to 12 would simply increase this malaise and players’ commitment would simply reduce further. No doubt in 5 years time a Body will be set up to move to 10 team Leagues !!!

The income necessary for the lifeblood of our Clubs would be drastically reduced resulting, I would suggest in the demise of many of our Clubs. If you feel this isn’t the case then ask them. It would seem that this simply hasn’t been done in the build up to the presentation of the Document.

Was it a deliberate attempt to carry the Review by guaranteeing two home Cup games and then producing a structure that simply wouldn’t make this possible or was it simply a lack of understanding. ??

We are expecting and hoping to have a dramatic increase in numbers turning to our sport after the World Cup next season. This competition is probably second only to the football World Cup in generating interest. Again we can’t understand the reduction in fixture numbers accommodating any large increase in numbers. It really is unfathomable. !!

2nd XV Rugby

It is widely known that in the North West of England there is running a viable Competition involving Clubs’ 2nd XVs but also involving the lower sides in our Clubs. This competition runs at a failure rate of some 5-7 % bear in mind it involves, 2nds, 3rds, 4ths and 5th teams with one 6th team. Please BEAR IN MIND THE FAILURE RATE, that failure rate.

The Competitions are run on a 14 team League basis. There is no question of player burn out and it is a fact that the Premier League of this League set up produces some simply terrific Rugby. The competition supplements the loss of bar takings when Clubs’ 1st XV’s are away. Club houses are busy producing much needed finance.

There is no question of this Competition moving to a 12 team basis. Unfortunately if our 1st XVs move to 12 the 2nd XV competition could well collapse. Clearly our 1st XVs would have REST days whilst their 2nds were involved in playing, leading to infiltration of more senior players. Certainly in the early days of this Competition it was a massive problem and clearly the same would occur again.

This was expressed clearly when we outlined the whole development of these Leagues to the “Harrogate” member when he visited us, later found to be a member of the Review Group. He didn’t identify himself.

Note these Leagues will not move to 12 under their present administration.

Results of The NAG Survey

********** This question was ambiguous because Clubs were returning yes when they had attended one of the Workshops. See “comments”, these were just meetings to sell the idea of the move to 12 and major concerns were not listened to

League by League :-

National 3 North
Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported? NO 100%
Would you prefer to retain 14? YES 100%
Are you content to let others run at 14 YES 100%
Players views 14 YES 100%
Was your Club consulted NO 66% ******

North 1 West
Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported NO 86%
Would you prefer to retain 14 YES 100%
Are you content to let others run at 14 YES 100%
Players Views 14 YES 100%
Was your Club consulted NO 73% ******

North 1 East Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported NO 100%
Would you prefer to retain 14 YES 100%
Are you content to let others run at 14 YES 100%
Players Views YES 100%
Was Your Club consulted NO 73% *******

North Lancs/ Cumbria Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported NO 71%
Would you prefer to retain 14 YES 86%
Are you content to let others run at 14 YES 86%
Players Views YES 86%
Was your Club consulted NO 73% ******

North Lancs Div 1 Current League 11
Is the Adult Review Supported NO 82%
Would you prefer to retain 14 N/A
Would you prefer to move to 14 YES 73%
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 82%
Players View 14 YES 86%
Was Your Club consulted NO 73% ******

North Lancs. Div. 2 Current League 10
Is the Adult Review Supported Yes/NO 50%
Would you prefer to retain 14 N/A
Would you prefer to move to 14 YES 90%
Are you content to let others run YES 100%
Players View 14 YES 80%
Was Your Club Consulted NO 60% *******

Cumbria Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported NO 60%
Would you prefer to retain 14 Yes 100%
Are you content to let others run 14 Yes 100%
Players View 14 YES 60%
Was Your Club Consulted NO 60% *******

**Unusual League 2nd XVs make up the number to 14

South Lancs. Chesh. 1 Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported NO 100%
Would you prefer to retain 14 YES 100%
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 100%
Players View 14 YES 94%
Was Your Club Consulted NO 73% *******

South Lancs/Cheshire. 2 Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported NO 100%
Would you prefer to retain 14 YES 95%
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 96%
Players View YES 96%
Was your Club Consulted NO 78% *******

South Lancs. Cesh. 3 Current League 11
Is the Adult Review supported NO 50%
Would you prefer to retain 14 N/A
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 91%
Players View 14 YES 80%
Was your Club Consulted YES/NO 50% *******

The Survey of Yorkshire Clubs was curtailed after our Rep had planned holiday down under !!!!!
Percentages will be presented on the Clubs contacted !!!

Yorkshire 1 (6 Clubs) Current League 14
Is the Adult Review Supported NO 100%
Would you prefer to retain 14 YES 100%
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 100%
Players View No Figures
Was your Club Consulted NO 66% *********

Yorkshire 2 (10 Clubs) Current League 14
Is the Adult Review supported NO 40%
Would you prefer to retain 14 NO 40%
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 35%
Players View No Figures
Was your Club Consulted NO 80% **********

Yorkshire 3 (3 Clubs) Current League 14
Is the Adult Review Supported NO 67%
Would you prefer to retain 14 NO 67%
Are you content to let others run 14 NO 67%
Players Views No figures
Was Your Club consulted YES 66% *******

Yorkshire 4 (5Clubs) Current League 11
Is the Adult Review Supported Yes/No 50%
Would you prefer to retain 14 N/A
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 100%
Players View No figures
Was your Club Consulted NO 100% ******

Yorkshire 5 (4 Clubs) Current League 8
Is the Adult Review Supported YES/NO 50%
Would you prefer to move to 14 YES/NO 50%
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 100%
Players View No Figures
Was your Club Consulted YES/NO 50% *****

Durham Northu 1 Current League 14
Is the Adult Review Supported NO 66%
Would you prefer to move to 14 N/A
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 100%
Players View YES 96%
Was your Club Consulted NO 96% ******

Durham North u 2 Current League 14
Is the Adult Review Supported NO 90%
Would you prefer to move to 14 NA
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 70%
Players View 14 YES 90%
Was your Club Consulted NO 66% ******

Durham North u 3 Current League 12
Is The Adult Review supported Question not asked !!
Would you prefer to retain 14 14 50%
Are you content to let others run 14 YES 100%
Players View 14 YES 50%
Was your Club Consulted NO 100%

Overall Summary to date from the analysis of the above figures and involving the main sheets as attached.

Need to retain 14 Team Leagues 86%

Don’t support the Adult Review 80%

Players need to stay at 14 87%

Need for 12 team Leagues to move to 14 88%

Conclusions

There is an overwhelming, conclusive need in the North of England to retain the status quo. There is a groundswell of opinion building to make this happen. The North of England has unique problems in relation to other parts of the Country.

The Adult Reviews conclusions are clearly not supported and the Rugby Football Union being a democratic organisation must heed the needs of the grass root Clubs in the North. There is no reason whatever logically or strategically why the North should not operate a 14 team League structure on its own. This will in no way impinge on the structures that might operate in other parts of the country.

2nd XV Rugby particularly in the North West is healthy and should not be tampered with in any way. Yes consult, but do not touch !!!

F.S.

NAG Report to be Presented to the Rugby Football Competitions Committee on the 20th January 2015

Ladies/Gentlemen,
I think it is a well known fact that the North of England clubs at a figure of 85% plus are in disagreement with the conclusions of the Adult Review Body outcomes.

After a detailed consultation involving 100% of Clubs in the North West of England and the North East of England the outcomes are clearly in favour of the status quo. We had particular problems with our Yorkshire Clubs but at the more senior levels we had a 100% response.There are a number of discrepancies in the conclusions of the Adult Review body:-

• 1. There is a serious doubt about the consultations with our Clubs. These are illustrated in the “comments” segment of our consultation documents. It appears that detailed contact with our Clubs was minimal and the procedures used to elucidate Clubs opinions were carried out through a series of workshops. We cannot find any detailed outcomes from these Meetings regards individual Clubs views as expressed at these workshops or the level of membership of the personnel from our Clubs who might have attended these Workshops. Clearly this is in line with other appeals for information which is in short supply. Massive shortcomings in the whole consultation process.

From our procedures which were carried out through senior members of our Clubs, Chairman, Secretaries, directors of Rugby etc. it would appear that these workshops were simply sales initiatives simply to present to the members the conclusions of the Review Body and their intentions. Any views expressed were ignored.

2. It would appear that the initiation of the Review Bodies consultations were based on two premises, and at the present time we have no knowledge of the source of the implementions of the Review Bodies work. i.e. who set these procedures up ??

a) a) The numbers of players leaving our sport were reducing !!

b) b) The numbers of games our players were expected to play was causing player “burn out”.

A) Over the years it is clear that there has been a serious reduction in the numbers of players either entering our sport, or continuing to play in our sport. Figures from our own governing body The Rugby Football Union show that this undesirable trend has been halted and in fact numbers over the past few years have been increasing at a rate of 2% per year. Why has this fact been hidden in the Review Bodies consultations and also in the know of our governing body.

B) Player “burnout” is open to conjecture. After numerous surveys it has been shown that the average number of games played by our players is roughly 18 games. These figures apply to NCA Clubs at a 16 team level and also our Clubs at 14 team levels. There is no way players playing 18 games per season will suffer “burn out”.

Of course our own Governors increase the numbers of games our players need to be involved in by setting up out of season Competitions at the end of what they say is an exhaustive League season.

The two premises as above would appear to be the two main reasons for the Review body’s work. Both are based on false information.

3. Documentation is available for all to see in respect of the detailed work carried out by our NAG Reps. In the North of England., copies have been forwarded to , The President, The Chief Executive, The Chairman and the Chairman of Competitions.

Detailed information is itemised illustrating the extent of our consultations with contact details and levels of membership in our Clubs of the members approached. Time was given to allow the gentlemen concerned to consult and report back. There was no pressure to extract a response from what in essence was initially a “cold call”.

The information as compiled is a 100% accurate feed back concerning our Clubs views and needs. The outcomes are conclusive regarding the need to remain at 14 in our efforts to maintain the sustainability of our Northern Clubs both in respect of player retention and the financial necessities of all our member Clubs.

Of course the proposed reduction to 12 will have serious consequences regarding the two comments as above, retention of players, financial viability.

4. The North of England in effect is a self contained area of our country and any changes or maintenance of our present structures will in no way impinge on any changes that might be needed in other areas of the country. To this end there doesn’t seem to be any reason at all why areas should not be allowed to set up structures that are needed to sustain their member Clubs. It is a well known fact that the North have a serious problem with incursions from what are parallel sports.

In fact the opening comments of The Review Body’s document suggests that “one size does not fit all”.

( We have worked hard to try to reconcile some of those opposing views. What is clear though, is that for almost any given competition issue there is no perfect one size fits all solution for all Rugby in England. )

Bearing in mind the above intro to the Review Body Document, the suspected flaws in the review Body’s Consultation process, and the two premises as espoused, against the 100% accurate survey of our Northern Clubs it will be the intention for the North to continue with 14 team structures into the distant future, certainly until valid consultation processes have been carried out in the interests of what is our great sport.

I offer the overall conclusions of our approach to the senior officials of all our Clubs in the North. It must be noted that approaches were made to all Clubs at whatever levels in the interests of ALL.

The questions posed and their percentage views received :-

1) The need to retain 14 team Leagues 86% in favour

2) Don’t support the Adult Review 80% of Clubs don’t support

3) PLAYERS NEEDS to STAY at 14 87% need to remain at 14

4) Need for 12 team Leagues to move to 14 88% need for a move to 14

Ladies and Gentlemen of the Rugby Football Competitions Body we consider these figures, elucidated from the most senior officials of our Clubs to be most conclusive, and in a democratic body which we consider the Rugby Football Union to be, we have a conclusive democratic right, and to maintain the viability of our Clubs and the clear need of our players, to continue into the future with our present structures but with a detailed look as to how we can raise numbers to allow all our Clubs to benefit from 14 team structures.

There is indications that Cup Competitions may be introduced with “inducements”. If these are introduced they must be introduced on top of the clear need in the North of England for 14 team structures.

NAG Representatives from The North Of England